depersonalization

I think I understand. I don't think I have it. Ok, lemme run through the process, reiterate the conversation I had with nobody.

You tell them they're being cowardly, afraid to accept reality, so creating a bigger reality, or denying it. Etc.  The Alt right is a good current lable, but this kind of human personality type has been here a long time. Scared and trying to control everything, trying to stir everyone else up so they don't feel so chaotic in spite of being such chaotic persons. 

So the right calls a left cowardly. I know, I've done it myself. It's blatantly obvious to me that the conservativism I see is born of fear, driven by fear, motivated and justified by fear. Aka cowardice. 

But you see, it doesn't get through to their hearts like we want it to. We say that, thinking we'll drill through to the person inside, the idealistic teen who wanted to be a good person. 

But no, what we do is train them on a new good insult word. They eventually start using it back, as if they don't even acknowlege that the word has a definition, simply pleased to watch the ant's nest stir (and holding about that much consideration for the humans involved.) 

Because, wait for it, .....

There is no person in there anymore. The person died. They died somewhere, some when, killed off for making grief. Depersonalization. The human behind the lips hasn't got his own personality anymore. He's a product of a toxic upbringing that taught him that the only way to be at peace in any sense, or rather to stop crying, was to kill off himself and replace it with whatever the largest and strongest group of people are doing at that moment. If they can get to a position of telling that group what to do, they guarantee a certain daily security, but gain the insecurity of a king on the Iron Throne. never able to stop being afraid, because life refuses to guarantee anything. Even if by some strange quirk of fate the length of your life is guaranteed, the quality still isn't. It's bloody terrifying. And intimately real. And the one emotion shared across all Creation, as one might term it. An emotion that drives right back to the heart of all Life. The fear of ending. 

And is it a type of ending when your personality dies? But then who is the person still striving and driving and battling and caring about something, however skewed the priorities might have gotten?  I know they're someone letting the outside world direct who they are, what they see as important, and what they acknowlege about themeselves, but can we be assured the person they were is really dead? What if he's in there screaming from a panic room in the middle, begging for an exorcist?  

We know this kind of personality is born of abuse. Too much and too much evidence to bother arguing otherwise. Even if they themselves often defend their abusers the most vehemently. we know that abuse victims often do. it is a safe way of taking back some power.  Denying the power theft in the first place.  Because, after all, at it's heart, abuse is about taking someone's power instead of charging and ennabling and enervating them with support and a safe place to retreat.  Zoo animals get safe retreats, children often do not.  I used to hide in the attic. A kid shouldn't be hiding in the attic.  That's mom's fault. All the way. Like a pet, the child is not capable of making important choices and should be guided by baby steps and not held accountable later for mistakes made and resolved. 

So depersonalization is when you let go of all internal sense of self and find the most powerful group and copy them. 

which is what Mr. is doing. if I could drag him away from the internet and toward some radical leftist hippies he would become someone else entirely because he does not come from an internal compass, he follows the shoal of fish around.

And the alt right know this, they've got it figured out and they've got the strength and power to pull off the looks needed to grab these people, mostly men, and yank them around.

I think the reason it's so male dominant is because toxic masculinity ground out a lot more personality than chauvenism did to women. Women were encouraged to express themselves. Men are severely beaten for expressing themselves. I know it was comon as hell in the 50s and 60s and on into the 80s to literally beat up a man who was expressing anything that wasn't part of an approved herd.  So unless they had extraordinary parenting or friends with same, they were in trouble. Lots of men had nobody to rescue them and caved.  Cave or die.  Lots of them died. Or get very powerful. Prince did that, for instance. Liberace is another loud symbol of it.  and yes, these powerful men have all sinned greatly in their power. Because, my friends, that is what the whole toxic system embodies. Abuse of others.  "eat or be eaten" is the idiom used to excuse this activity. they say it's nature's law, that the strong dominate and consume the weak. That it can't be helped. Abuse or be abused.

Yet we, as a species, know that's not true. That these people are all victims and perpetrators of illness. 

And they've become depersonalized. For me?  I must figure out what that means about Dan. Can I start with tiny steps getting him to declare things he likes?  I've tried fourteen years and still can't get him to use "yes" or "no" clearly.  He still says mealy mouthed answers like "I don't know" or "I don't care." 

Until you jack into the conversations he's been memorizing.  If this could have been university education he'd have a degree by now but instead it's Troll U and he's just losing more personality by the moment. He's all slogans and ham acting, big gestures and loud voice and declarative statements and no logic connections between them. And he can't hear it. He's just so pleased with himself to be able to expound at length on a topic as the expert he sees himself to be.

There's got to be an answer here. some way of manipulating him back away from all this toxic shit. Just trying to share space with him is fractious and charged with hostility.  I can't even get him to be considerate and keep the topic soft. He just goes off like a new year's eve rocket in a fireworks factory and there's no stopping that train. Full five minutes of repeating "stop talking, I don't want to discuss this, I refuse to have this conversation. You're not listening to me. I don't want to discuss foreign politics. I don't like fighting with you, you're just trying to pick a fight" and he's going on like I'm responding to his statements about the political topic he's on. And when I say political, I mean it very loosely.  I don't think the current bugaboo of "everyone on the left is a child rapist" thing is exactly politics anymore. Sounds a little too far into criminal behaviour accusing people like that.  What do they call that again? Defamation of character, yeah, not enough people suing other people for that these days. Not nearly enough. Now if the clintons and obamas and some other targets put a class action defamation lawsuit into action against Alex Jones and similar pundits, that WOULD redirect them. And winning would hurt them. Also, it would be standing up and saying 'no, I'm innocent of those crimes and you can't say that about me just because I'm famous."

of course the alt right are pointing and saying "that's because what we're saying is true and we'd get to prove it."  Whew. 

Well a lot of lawyers are going to stay busy.

this pedophile thing, part of it is the changing understanding of who a 14 yr old girl is. In my childhood, she was marriageable. Marginally. Not really legally, unless her parents signed for her. 

In some places marriage at age 12. Because girls didn't have any other future, so why not hand them over to their new owers early enough for some good training? And the older men would train the girls up to be good little wives. And depersonalize them. And depersonalize their children.

Because, you see, this problem is part of bully culture, a strange masculinity led behaviour that leads to friction with one's neighbors, a lack of personal thriving or growth, leeching off others, trying to control others, and overal general mayhem on a global scale.

Thing is, it's also, I suspect, the only reason we got to space. That drive is what allowed someone to gather enough resources for such a massive project. That's what built the infrastructures that support such a high level of technology. So we needed it. We need some of it still. But as any man on a team, they must be brought in line. They must learn to play their zone and pass the ball properly. 

my dog came by to remind me that it has to be done lovingly. She suggested sending them all dogs but I said, no, sending them more victims won't fix this.